Daily Dose - Google Boycotts JavaOne
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Google's Chief Java Architect Joshua Bloch just announced on the Google Code Blog that he and Google would not be at JavaOne this year due to the Oracle lawsuit. According to another blog entry by another Googler, all sessions with a presenter from Google will be cancelled. Apparently, no Google employees will attend the conference. There were at least six sessions that I found with Google's name in the title. Their booth also won't be there. Here's the bulk of what Bloch had to say:
"Like many of you, every year we look forward to the workshops, conferences and events related to open source software. In our view, these are among the best ways we can engage the community, by sharing our experiences and learning from yours. So we’re sad to announce that we won't be able to present at JavaOne this year. We wish that we could, but Oracle’s recent lawsuit against Google and open source has made it impossible for us to freely share our thoughts about the future of Java and open source generally. This is a painful realization for us, as we've participated in every JavaOne since 2004, and I personally have spoken at all but the first in 1996."
A recent poll of the DZone audience found that 92 voters said they would boycott the JavaOne conference because of Oracle's lawsuit against Google. However, in the comments Reza Rahman may be right to remind us that JavaOne is "much bigger than Oracle." 98 said they were still going to attend and 56 said they were undecided.
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A debate that started as a comment on the Java Posse mailing list continues.
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Comments
Reza Rahman replied on Fri, 2010/08/27 - 4:46pm
Thanks for the qoute and the constructive comments on JavaOne. The way I see it, if Java developers honestly believe the lawsuit does not serve the long and short term best interests of Java developers, there are far more constructive and effective ways of expressing that opinion such as an open petition clearly outlining the reasoning, the pros/cons (I do think both exist) and the alternatives.
Personally I agree with James Gosling that the lawsuit is not necessarily without merit and it is hard to draw clean divides between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" on this issue. What I am hoping for on this issue is avoiding a long, fractious legal battle and a constructive compromise between two very capable companies, both of which are important to the future of Java...
Cheers,
Reza
Fabrizio Giudici replied on Fri, 2010/08/27 - 5:25pm
in response to: rrahman
Thanks for being logical, Reza. :-) We need that to counter the ever-spreading FUD and irrational attitudes.
Back to the point, there are a few things that hurt me. In particular, I'd like Google to speak clearly. Instead of saying "We can't participate at JavaOne 2010", I'd like to read: a) Oracle is practically preventing us from speaking - b) Our lawyers told us that it would be risky for the corporate if we speak - c) We're boycotting JavaOne.
If a) is true, then shame on Oracle. If b) is true, then shame on the law system, but we can't do anything about that. In any case, I don't think b) can be totally true - Bloch is also saying "we're searching for alternate venues to speak", so speaking in the open doesn't sound as a risk. If it's c) - sorry, but I say shame on Google. They would treat us, attendees and members of the community, as human shields in their war.
In any case, this makes me think that in future independently driven conferences (such as Devoxx, Jazoon, JAX, etc...) should be more and more supported by us, rather than JavaOne or Google I/O.
Tim O'farrell replied on Mon, 2010/08/30 - 5:03am
in response to: rrahman
Reza Rahman replied on Fri, 2010/08/27 - 10:39pm
Fabrizio,
Thanks for the kind words and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am tired of individuals and companies in the Java realm thinking they can enlist Java developers as "foot soldiers" at will whenever it suits their purposes - be it Oracle or Google. The big boys already have their big guns - they don't need any help from little guys like us...
As to conference attendance, I think the key is to "buy" whatever product/service provides the best quality at the greatest value instead of making professional choices on the basis of personal political beliefs. This is basically the same as the "buy American" nonsense that never works because it ignores fundamental economic factors in favor of intangible political ones that have little to do with metrics of the actual "but/not buy" decision...
For example, although I value standardization personally, I don't always simply choose standards-backed products for a project unless they really have technical merit as well...
Cheers,
Reza
gumnaam suri replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 8:36am
Larry wants a piece of the Andriod pie, and that's that.
Besides I hate software patents with a passion, they are WRONG WRONG and did I mention WRONG. So no matter what Oracle says their intent is when suing Google, they are not fooling any one. Using software patent to prevent fragmentation is nothing short of demanding extortion money for your own protection.
What If I came up with my own VM, have my own syntax that doesn't resemble Java in anyway, Oracle can still sue me for patent infringement, coz the said software patents are not tied to any particular programming language. So the whole point that we are doing this to prevent Java fragmentation is moot.
Google is completely right in boycotting Javaone.
Geoff Longo replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 9:45am
in response to: gumnaam.sur
Jacek Furmankiewicz replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 9:53am
in response to: gumnaam.sur
One this is obvious, regardless of whichever side you stand on. The lawsuit has split the Java community in half (or maybe 80/20, who knows).
We haven't been this split, since...well, ever (at least not that I recall). Good work there Oracle...the guys at Microsoft must be opening the champagne thinking how they can use this against Java, Linux and open source in general during customer sales meetings.
J Szy replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 3:11pm
in response to: gumnaam.sur
They are. One of the strongest marketing points of Java is its uniformity and Oracle is defending that. Not for the sake of developers or other bullshit. Java's uniformity is worth real bucks to them and Java's fragmentation would take those bucks away.
That's also true. Sun has developed Java for 18 years or so and has poured quite a big buck into it - which made it worth for Oracle to acquire Sun. They didn't buy Sun to have Open Office or Mysql, really. Is it any strange that they want to get return on their investment.
You're completely right: that's totally because of software patents that all modern IT development now happens in european countries where software is not patentable and not in the States. Not?
They are not suing Parrot devs, they are not suing Microsoft, they are suing Google because it threatens Java. And Java is now Oracle's buck to be made, not Parrot and not .NET.
Why did they choose patents? Probably lawyers decided that this would be the best weapon to hit Google with.
Wujek Srujek replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 10:54am
@Jacek - the community, at least its 'enterprise' part, is divided into 2 camps - the Spring camp, and the EE camp. They both seem to hate each other sincerely, and I am pretty sure I saw you take part in more than one of most heated debates, so you know what I mean. (I am not implying that you belong to one or the other, although I know you are the Spring guy ;d, or that you hate anyone) This can be observed each time a new version of Spring comes out with new features, or when a new version of the Java EE / EJB standard comes out.
Just my 2c on community split.
Jacek Furmankiewicz replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 1:25pm
in response to: ws
Sure, but these are typical programmer religious discussions :-)
This particular one (Oracle's vision for Java and its relation with other big players in the Java world) seemed a bit more fundamental...Otengi Miloskov replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 12:32pm
Andrei Taranchenko replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 12:51pm
in response to: OtengiM
J Szy replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 3:14pm
in response to: digitizer
What exactly will Oracle lose?
Jacek Furmankiewicz replied on Sat, 2010/08/28 - 1:43pm
Fabrizio Giudici replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 4:32am
Thanks for enlighting us about Oracle only wanting to make money. I had forgotten that, instead, Google with Android and the rest of their business is only pursuing the Good of the Mankind, because they don't do evil. How silly I am.
Now, back to the point, can you explain me why Google "is right" in boycotting JavaOne? If one stops for a moment from being a fanboy and thinks about net facts of this move:
So, I've just backed my point, that the only people harmed by the boycott are attendees and members of the community.
For what concerns the 80/20 split of the community, I disagree. In fact there's some people, including me, that when a contention between corporates bursts out don't start screaming immediately their partisanship for one party and against the other, instead they wait and see to understand what's really happening.
Loren Kratzke replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 1:23pm
To say that the only people harmed by the boycott are the attendees and members of the community is not entirely accurate. The amount of damage in total is equal to the lost benefit of Google's participation. Oracle would benefit from Google's participation indirectly via the community, which in turn is monotized via deeper adoption of Java technologies in business. Oracle can't handle that. They don't want to work for their money, they just want all the money up front. They don't give a damn about the long term with the exception of license agreements (for which they have historically overcharged by the millions).
Google is just doing this to call them out into the open and to give the this legal stunt maximum sunlight. Google knows that the community is on Google's side, and that in an A-B comparison of companies, one respects and contributes to the developer community, and the other one basically shits on the developer community in favor of large corporate per-CPU licenses and massively expensive "seat" licenses for proprietary software.
My prediction - they will eventually try to kill Netbeans, Netbeans will fork to a community dev model, and will then be sued by Oracle for some stupid patent infringement (method of clicking on something to make it compile, etc). The price that they ask for licensing will suck the life out of the project. I predict the same for all Sun products. Oracle does not get it now, and probably never will.
J Szy replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 3:27pm
in response to: qphase
Oh yes, just like Sun did benefit from opensourcing Java.
Yeah, because those handful billions of dollars Oracle put into the acquisition (and thus repaying Sun on Java development) had grown on trees near Oracle's HQ.
It's not anything like Oracle licenses having been worth what they'd been charging for. We all know that Larry's black ops were marching from company to company sticking a gun to CTO's and CFO's heads threatening to kill them if they don't buy Oracle products.
And that's exactly why Sun has acquired Oracle away from their way straight into bankruptcy.
Otengi Miloskov replied on Sun, 2010/08/29 - 6:56pm
County Line Nissan replied on Mon, 2011/08/01 - 11:29am
Liezel Jane Jandayan replied on Thu, 2011/08/25 - 6:15am