Javalobby - Comments for "Java 6 on Mac. Worst release ever."

My company sells a

dl113449 — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:38:47 -0400

My company sells a commercial Java SE 6 implementation for Windows and Linux, so we have a Commercial Use license for the Java SE technology. Many of our customers are interested in a Mac OS X version, but that would require us porting the standard API (all the native methods), whereas on Windows and Linux we use Sun's code. So a Mac port is not economically feasible for us at the moment, unless we have enough pre-orders.

I am wondering now if we could finance the porting effort with the help of the community. If we could port the API to the Mac, we could build the JDK for the Mac and make it freely available, and reuse the ported code in our own product.

Drop me a line at dleskov at excelsior dash usa dot com if you think this can work and have an idea on how to make it work.

Regarding your "No 64 bit

murban — Sun, 04 May 2008 13:42:06 -0400

Regarding your "No 64 bit Cocoa libraries" point--Cocoa actually is 64 bit in Leopard, so certain "glue" code should work fine. Yes, Apple is no longer developing the full blown Java-Cocoa bridge. But that's not anything new. Apple deprecated that a few years ago and said it would not be developed any further.

Well, it is definitely true

murban — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:11:58 -0400

Well, it is definitely true that it only works on 64 bit Intel systems, as Apple specifically says that. So anyone who has one of the Core Duo Macs can't use Java 6. And the Core Duo Macs aren't that old really. Only the Core 2 Duos work.

Sun's primary complaints

jessh — Fri, 02 May 2008 06:41:14 -0400

Sun's primary complaints about Microsoft's Java implementation were:

Removal of JNI
Removal of RMI

There were various other smaller complaints, but these 2 removals were major (and intentional IMHO) stumbling blocks to write-once-run-anywhere imposed by Microsoft. Microsoft's answer to both removals is that developers should be using Microsoft-specific alternatives to both technologies rather than even bothering with cross-platform portability.

The whole thing was somewhat tragic, but I really can't blame Sun for suing Microsoft here.

Java is broken for the

im-james — Fri, 02 May 2008 03:19:20 -0400

Java is broken for the Mac... Where is the news?
Historically, Java support on the Mac has always been lame (new version always late, if they come at all; special code needed to work around special bugs, etc..) except for a few years.
I have assumed long ago that my Java app will not work flawlessly on a Mac.

@Bruce Fancher No, Sun sued

behrangsa — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:04:32 -0400

@Bruce Fancher

No, Sun sued Microsoft, because Microsoft had manipulated the syntax of Java via their introduction of delegates into the language.

@Mats - Plenty of people

mgardner — Thu, 01 May 2008 20:54:25 -0400

@Mats - Plenty of people install Ubuntu on their Macbook Pros. I dual-boot into it myself. Best of both worlds.

For me personally I don't

gregorypierce — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:20:41 -0400

For me personally I don't really care so much about 'free' software. I just care that my solutions actually work. Apple produced one that doesn't work well and that's a HUGE problem. That's no different than open source projects that ship with broken support for a wide variety of things because they didn't have manpower. Somehow the community is willing to forgive the open source project but they mercilessly condemn the commercial projects.

I don't believe that "free" is the pancea that everyone claims it to be. Some of the worse solutions to any number of problems are "free". If Apple's Java SDK were free, would the community actually jump in and write the entire GUI layer in anything less than several years time?

Not true. You can still use

bf44704 — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:17:08 -0400

Not true. You can still use JNI to interface with native code, just like on any other platform.

This means that Java 6

heggaton — Thu, 01 May 2008 18:47:16 -0400

This means that Java 6 doesn't run on 1 year old MacBooks or all early adopters of the Intel switch.

I don't mean to quibble but, my 1.5 year old MacBook runs Java 6 just fine. As does my 1.5 year old iMac.

I do agree that this release sucks and don't disagree with your other complaints but it doesn't help your argument when you provide invalid facts.

The lack from Apple to

javathreads — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:23:34 -0400

The lack from Apple to support Java was seen way ahead, I own a 64bit arch Mac(lucky me), the only reason that keeps me still coding on it is the option to use multiple OSs through VMware, in fact I'm using 99% of the time Linux-Ubuntu, Solaris and Windows for my developing, and the remaining 1%.. to boot the OS X, I know it's weird, but at least I can develop my work and being freely to use OSS.

If you want to integrate

troggan — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:02:25 -0400

If you want to integrate your Java app with Linux, Windows and Mac a small amount of Code is necessary to make everything look right and integrate well. E.g. on Mac it's normal for applications to use Growl, a notification system. But you can only use it if you can use a little cocoa glue code. That is not possible anymore.

And that's not the only problem. Java 6 can't be used in Safari, because of the 64bit nature. I am one of the lucky guys that own a 64bit machine. Many Mac-Users don't have a 64bit machine.

No Cocoa support?Wait,

bf44704 — Thu, 01 May 2008 16:52:41 -0400

No Cocoa support?

Wait, didn't Sun sue Microsoft to stop them from integrating the Windows API into their version of Java? What's the point of writing a Cocoa app in Java? If you're writing a Mac application, use Objective-C. If you're writing a Java application, make it 100% pure Java and make it cross-platform.

It is time for people to

mats.henricson — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:42:32 -0400

It is time for people to make a conscious choice about freedom! Is that flash-glitz and polished aluminium most important, or is it free software? Haven't people learned over the years? Going with free software is the only way to not being screwed.

I wonder if we'll see less

okidoky — Thu, 01 May 2008 11:59:07 -0400

I wonder if we'll see less MacBooks at JavaOne this year. Or is Apple dragging down progress within Sun because their employees are hooked on Macs?