Javalobby - Comments for "Interview: Java Heating System Regulator"

Serguei - it wasn't J2EE -

abien — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:53:58 -0400

Serguei - it wasn't J2EE - but Java EE 5. It is really lean - no overhead. If you wish - just checkout the code and make it leaner :-). I'm already curious.

This appliaction is really

sm76327 — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:57:19 -0400

This appliaction is really good example of overengineering that creates so bad reputation for Java nowdays.

You don't need all the JEE crapware to solve such a simple problem.

Nice to see a positive

okidoky — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:19:10 -0400

Nice to see a positive project.

I'm interested to know what type of adaptive control techniques it has. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory

What's this "tuning" all about? When it's first introduced, how long does it take to "home in" in to an optimum bahavior, and will it continue to adapt. For instance, on a sunny day, there is more heat coming in to the house, so what it has "learned" so far, might need further adjustments. And what it might "unlearn" one day it might have to "relearn" later. How much energy is wasted while the system tinkers and "tunes", and retunes?

This piece of technology is

jsugrue — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:46:45 -0400

This piece of technology is really interesting, and there's nothing wrong with applying proven techniques to a new field. The idea of a smart home is something that appeals to us all and it's great to see some open source Java libraries helping with home automation.

Congratulations on the JAX award nomination!

dgilbert wrote:And I'm off

geertjan — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:08:28 -0400

dgilbert wrote:

And I'm off now to look at my home heating system and see whether I can monitor / control it in the same way.

I tried the same thing yesterday, but failed. Maybe Adam can give us a hint about how to make that first fundamental connection from Java to a home heating system. Or, at least, how to figure out whether that is possible with one's home heating system.

zynasis wrote:Very average

dgilbert — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:39:40 -0400

zynasis wrote:

Very average peice of software.

Hardly worth mentioning in my opinion.

Well, I'll discount your opinion because I think this is one of the most interesting posts to appear on JavaLobby for some time. And I'm off now to look at my home heating system and see whether I can monitor / control it in the same way.

Adam, don't forget that any

yamagami — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:31:35 -0400

Adam, don't forget that any space launch after the first suyuz/sputnik is also 'nothing new', any computer after the first behemoths of the 50s-60s is old news, the internet 'has been done before', and the human race is passe.
Funny how bitter people can get.

I found your system very interesting from a home-hacking point of view. It sounds like a good fun project to do.

zynasis wrote:im not

abien — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 04:42:04 -0400

zynasis wrote:

im not interested in ticketting myself, but a small amount of info is that my history is in billing software.
from my point of view, this is the same old same old, and nothing really new/revolutionary.

You are right GreenFire is nothing new or even revolutionary. The interesting point is, that you can save energy with only little effort.

I would go further, than your opinion: Java SE / EE are nothing new. Smalltalk Ruby, were/are very similar to Java (even a superset). Appserver is nothing new - CICS is very similar.

So you are very right!

im not interested in

zynasis — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:29:58 -0400

zynasis wrote:Please, from

geertjan — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:55:41 -0400

zynasis wrote:

Please, from what I can see here there is hardly anything to this.

Polling, making adjustments and reporting/control via a web page.

Most semi serious applications already do this in one way or another.

So, you agree that the application does what it is meant to do. How is that "average"? Isn't that at least "good"? Is complexity a required attribute for something being "good"? So, Adam should make his application much more complex and only then would his application be worth mentioning? He needed an application to control his heating system. It does that in a very ingenious way, leveraging a wide range of technologies. I'd be very happy to interview you, zynasis, about the applications you've made. :-) Really.

"Very average peice of

abien — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:16:07 -0400

"Very average peice of software."

I don't think it is average - I even don't know another system which manages a heating system in such a a way. I would call it rather "simple", than "average". It is amazing how much you can achieve (=save energy) with such a simple approach.

I wouldn't like to write a "rocket science" class software. I'm even thinking about further simplifying it - and run it directly on SunSPOTs.

But if you thinking it is too average - just contribute an AI-module. In case it works (=save energy :-)) I will integrate it!

Thanks for your comment!,

adam

"Polling, making adjustments

abien — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:09:15 -0400

"Polling, making adjustments and reporting/control via a web page."

Not a WebPage - this is still in work. I access the offline database via reports.

"Most semi serious applications already do this in one way or another."

You know another heating control?

"Also, who calls a component "brain". Is this a simple way of slamming all the business logic into a single component? Seperate the business logic from the presentation"

In my opensource activities I like to use fancy names. You know a better name? Heart would be appropriate as well. The logic isn't in the component at all (this is the trick) - it is downloaded from outside...

"Seperate the business logic from the presentation"

In this case it is totally separated - there is actually no connection between both. The RSS-View (your "WebPage") is feeded by a JMS-Queue. There is no dependeny between both.

"I stand by my comment."

No problem. But keep in mind: my intention was to manage heating control in a very efficient manner. I'm just wasn't interested in building complex software. Keep It Simple. In the next refactoring I'm going to further simplify it. So it will be even more "average" in your eyes :-).

However - if you are another great ideas / algorithms how to save energy - you are welcome...

Please, from what I can see

zynasis — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:29:58 -0400

Please, from what I can see here there is hardly anything to this.

Polling, making adjustments and reporting/control via a web page.

Most semi serious applications already do this in one way or another.

Also, who calls a component "brain". Is this a simple way of slamming all the business logic into a single component? Seperate the business logic from the presentation.

I stand by my comment.

I hope you're kidding,

geertjan — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:10:00 -0400

I hope you're kidding, zynasis. :-) Also, if you're serious, I'd like you to know that it is incredibly rude to say something like that without giving the smallest hint as to why you are saying that. So far, in my time on Javalobby, I have not seen a worse comment than yours.

Very average peice of

zynasis — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:19:04 -0400

Very average peice of software.

Hardly worth mentioning in my opinion.