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Oracle v Google: Looking Expensive for Google, Trial To Kick Off in November

06.17.2011
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It looks like Oracle are really going after Google in their lawsuit over Android's use of Java, seeking damages "in the billions of dollars". Barring any settlements between the two, the trial is expected to begin in November.

A disclosure was forced following last week's filing from Google, where they called Oracle's damage report "unreliable and results-oriented," and asked
that he court to keep private some damages information Google disclosed in a court filing. Oracle accused Google of trying to conceal the damage claims in a document filed yesterday, and said it doesn't have any problem with the damage information becoming public. Google have now been forced to make the damages information public by this Friday.

So it looks like we'll all know exactly how much Oracle are looking for later in the day. Stay tuned for updates.
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Comments

Michal Xorty replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 6:15am

I can't help myself, but I just feel like Larry E. and his crew act like bunch of fucking idiots in this matter :-/

Nigel Eiland replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 7:19am

More greed. Don't bother stay tuned

Dimitris Menounos replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 7:35am

@Michal

It is more like Google got caught with their pants down and may now get what they deserve. They chose to build their OS on top of Java and just circumvent Sun / Oracle.

Michal Xorty replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 7:50am

@Dimitris I feel like Google is one of the very few big companies that recently helped to get Java where it is now. If there was no Android, number of the new Java developers would not rise this rapidly. Young developers are not really interested in business APIs, but in cool stuff like Android, GWT and so on. James Gosling himself joined them and claimed that former Sun would not sue Google over this thing. You can check it out here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA

Dimitris Menounos replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 8:19am in response to: Michal Xorty

@Michal

However that doesn't change the "circumvent" part. They took advantage of third party technology and yet decided not to pay licence fees. They did it because, at the time, knew that Sun would not be able to hunt them down. They in fact did enormous damage to Sun / Oracle Java ME revenue. http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/enterprise-java-oracles-real-reason-suing-google-560

Alex(JAlexoid) ... replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 8:21am in response to: Dimitris Menounos

If Sun were had bit less NIH syndrome about how Android implemented Java, maybe this would come to be. Sun were total idiots about J2ME... If it weren't for Android, mobile Java would be as it were - dead end technology.

 And please... Server side only Java would result in COBOLization of Java.

 

PS: Android ingringes on Java patents as much as Apache Harmony does. Yet what is the stance of Sun/Oracle on alternative implmentatios of Java that don't name themselves Java? Generally it was quite positive(Kawa and others).That is why this is a greedy move.

Alex(JAlexoid) ... replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 8:24am in response to: Dimitris Menounos

They in fact did enormous damage to Sun / Oracle Java ME revenue.

And where was J2ME going? Nowhere. It was a long dying technology, otherwise Apple wouldn't have over 90% of total mobile app sales. They should be thankful for bringing Java to speed with smartphones.

Dimitris Menounos replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 8:40am

@Alex

It is not a greedy move, only business. Google is not the white knight savior of Java. They make billions out of it. They could have struck a deal with Sun. They could even have bought Sun. Now Oracle, as the rightful owner of Java, would be idiots NOT to go after them.

Reza Rahman replied on Fri, 2011/06/17 - 2:00pm in response to: Dimitris Menounos

I think it's impossible to predict what side is the real wrongdoer in this case. Both parties look less than savory to me :-). Whetever the final verdict is, I guess it is justice that will prevail in the end...

Curly Wurly replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 1:01am

Since Oracle bought Sun and had nothing to do with developing Java per-se, they are acting like a patent troll at best. One wonders if this was the real reason they bought Sun, as they've changed their tune on open sourcing Java's TCK.

Dave Smith replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 2:58am

I don't understand how anyone can think this is bad for Java and Java Developers. If Oracle win then it is highly likely that all Android devices will end up with a Java Runtime Environment on them, licensed from Oracle. I might not like Oracle's other moves, but suing Google is exactly what should be done, for the good of Java and Java developers (and for the long term future of Java).

Liam Knox replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 5:34am in response to: Michal Xorty

That is clearly crap. Java was by far the most important language in the server space and had footprint in embedded world but to so much the mobile space before Andriod got a sniff. Also Gosling did not have a good thing to say about Andriod technically and I agree if this case is a patent infringement it needs tough action

Imagine if Microsoft got away with the same back when they tried it on? That would of crippled the Java space and probably destroyed much open source development and innovation.

Stop buying this as black and white nonsense that Google is all good and Oracle is so bad. My take is Google has a case to answer and I can't see them wriggling out without some substantial settlement.

Liam Knox replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 5:44am in response to: Alex(JAlexoid) Panzin

Your view kind of goes against any reason to have any patents in the world ever! So if I invent a technology, patent it, and then fail to market, it becomes absolutely OK for some lazy SOB to copy it completely and make Billions, with me seeing not one cent?

If you are really happy in a Microsoft invent nothing, copy all but make it brain damaged and make Trillions then please stick to your guns on this one.

Nicolas Bousquet replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 7:19am

Google don't make billion by selling java. Making money, big money out of a computer language is nearly impossible. Google choose JAVA because of the JAVA echosystem nothing more, nothing less.

And if JAVA echosystem is so vibrant it is because JAVA is free as in free beer (and supposed to be free as in free speach too). There lot of open source libraries, one of best IDE in the world (sopen source), and great application server (open source).

JAVA is sucessfull because many use it and because it is free and open. Even microsoft open source it's C# implementation and CLR so you can use it on linux.

Google don't make a cent with JAVA. They even provide free tooling to developpers and they invested a lot. But this is to make a plaform (open source again) that serve a basis of the most widly used smartphone OS.

Google have built something interresting. Sun was recognising that. Oracle just see the short term and money. But by doing that they just weaken JAVA. Who is next to be sued? SpringSource? RedHat? Your IT departement? All JAVA developpers? The only reason they don't try yet is that google is the big one. If they are sucessfull against google nothing prevent them to continue and try to make the whole JAVA ecosystem to pay for every usage of it, even most were in and invested because it was officially free and open source.

Really all Oracle deserve is that nobody use java anymore and go for alternative technologies.

Michal Xorty replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 7:41am

Please don't shout at us :) It's Java, not JAVA. Apart of that, fair point.

Behrang Saeedzadeh replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 8:55am in response to: Dimitris Menounos

@Dimitris: Dalvik is not Java. Plus, Oracle sued Google for a couple of stupid patents. Not probably as stupid as Amazon's 1-click shopping patent, but definitely not something worth billions of dollars. And as McNeally had mentioned some time ago, suing other companies was not in the genetic code of Sun staff. These are things that made Sun an idol for many developers. Oracle just doesn't get. I for one, as a Java developer, am completely distracted by this move. Actions like these block and slow down advancement of technology.

Behrang Saeedzadeh replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 9:00am in response to: Reza Rahman

Considering that the whole patent system is a big mess and unjust to begin with, it's hard to believe that justice will prevail.

Liam Knox replied on Sat, 2011/06/18 - 5:10pm in response to: Behrang Saeedzadeh

Totally agree. Its hard to see clear justice though so far I would have to say Google need to compensate to get remotely near justice. The patent seems to suffer numerous problems from registering and what can be patented to disputes and general knowledge. When you hear the original Judge didn't know what a Class file was you can't hope for anything but a random result based on lawyer quality not fact.

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