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Oracle: Now Is The Time To Move Java Forward

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Yesterday Oracle provided a response to Apache, following Apache's recent statement encouraging other members of the executive committee to vote against the Java SE7 JSR. The response from Oracle reads as follows: 

Oracle nominated Apache for a seat on the Executive Committee in recognition of Apache's continued participation and valued contribution to the community.  The recently released statement by the ASF Board with regard to their participation in the JCP calling for EC members to vote against SE7 is a call for continued delay and stagnation of the past several years. We would encourage Apache to reconsider their position and work together with Oracle and the community at large to collectively move Java forward.  Oracle provides TCK licenses under fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms consistent with its obligations under the JSPA.   Oracle believes that with EC approval to initiate the SE7 and SE8 JSRs, the Java community can get on with the important work of driving forward Java SE and other standards in open, transparent, consensus-driven expert groups.   This is the priority.   Now is the time for positive action.  Now is the time to move Java forward.

Don Deutsch, Vice President of Standards and Architecture

Naturally, the ASF have already provided a reaction to Oracle's statement, simply stating

The ball is in your court. Honor the agreement.

The agreement that is referred to is an open letter sent by Apache to Sun three years ago, which protested against TCK licence restrictions for their Harmony project. 





Aljoscha Rittner replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 6:43am


In 2007 Oracle even voted for the removal of the Field-of-use clause. Today, no one wants to remember:

Executive Committee Meeting Summary for 4-5 December, 2007

Resolution 2 (proposed by BEA, seconded by Intel)

"The SEEE EC requests Sun to submit a Java SE7 JSR with the following characteristics:

  • EG members will share costs by contributing to the TCK and RI submitted under common licensing terms that will allow any implementer to use them;
  • accompanied by public spec, tck, ri licenses at JSR initiation;
  • licenses do not contain Field of Use restrictions on spec implementations.
  • the JSR is operated by the Spec Lead under democratic principles (e.g. Java SE6)

Furthermore, from the time of submission, TCK license(s) for Java SE5 and later will be offered without field of use restrictions on spec implementations enabling the TCK to be used by organizations including Apache."

 The result:

Resolution 2 vote tally
Apache Yes
Eclipse Absent
Fujitsu Yes
Google Yes
HP Abstain
IBM Abstain
Intel Yes
Red Hat Abstain
Doug Lea  Yes
Nortel Yes
Oracle Yes
SAS Absent
Hani Suleiman Yes
Sun Abstain

The present Oracle member was Donald R. Deutsch (Don Deutsch).

best regards, josh.

Andy Jefferson replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 7:05am

Oracle provides TCK licenses under fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms

No Oracle doesn't. I requested the (closed) TCK for JSR317 back in February, and completed all of the bureaucracy that Oracle imposed (never mind the secrecy restrictions that it imposes). The TCK was not forthcoming. Get your own house in order before you ask others to do things ...

An open TCK is the only thing I'll consider now.

J Szy replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 7:19am in response to: Aljoscha Rittner

Today, no one wants to remember

In 2007 Oracle was not the owner of the Java technology, now they are. By then they wanted to get more for free, by now they don't want to give more for free. It's as simple as that.

Stefano Girotti replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 9:02am

Oracle want money from Java... without invest money on it.... they are milking the cow without feeding it!!

Then? U have a legacy technology worth close to nothing


Oracle suiting Google to break the :




what about the Field of use ristriction on TCK???

Dan Howard replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 10:50am

Apache should stop whining and get to work like everyone else.

J Szy replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 1:01pm in response to: Stefano Girotti

Oracle want money from Java... without invest money on it....

Oh, nevermind those 7.4 gigabucks that Oracle had never invested at all...

Artur Biesiadowski replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 1:19pm

There is a other side of the equation, which is not often mentioned.

JCK is not a complete test. It tests only some parts of the implementation. It is possible to create the implementation of 'java' which passes the JCK and is incompatible in practice with Sun version of it.

Nobody 'sane' would actually want to do this on purpose - but I'm afraid that some of the forces who are most vocal in this manner would be actually very proud to get a snapshot of JCK, pass something bit incompatible through it and point - 'see, this is still java', leading to forked, incompatible versions (called 'added value'). Think about Microsoft from the early days of java. Or maybe IBM few years ago... wait, wasn't IBM behind the Harmony project?

Somehow, I feel a bit that Apache got manipulated into fighting for 'openess' of JCK by some of the commercial players, most notably IBM. Of course, it is fully in line with philosophy represented by Apache, which is a beautiful move. Now, as IBM seems to join forces with Oracle, Apache might end up fighting a war without the major backer behind the scenes - which can explain some of more bold/desperate moves recently.

I wonder if we will see some more involvement in backing up Apache politics from Google - they seems to be now replacing IBM in role of main java 'opposition' camp and would probably benefit the most from 'official java' implementation which can be as incompatible as they wish it to make.

Somebody will probably mention that java compatibility IS defined by JCK and nothing more, so whatever passed JCK is compatible with java, regardless if it launches a nuclear missile as a side effect of toString on Object (after all, JCK is NOT checking for nuclear missile launch in toString(), so it is allowed)... this is exactly the reason why I think that JCK should not be in the wild.

Fabrizio Giudici replied on Tue, 2010/11/16 - 5:47pm in response to: Artur Biesiadowski

Yes, Artur, I think that in the past IBM's play behind Harmony was to "hijack", at least partially, the platform. So, GPLv2 and the TCK story by Sun could have been, at least partially, defensive.

Khent Johnson replied on Fri, 2011/11/04 - 8:25pm

When I'm in secondary level and just starting to get involved with programming I hated it so much. It makes me sick to familiarize all the basic codes in each programming languages particularly in Java. Java is hard to understand but when you used to it you'll find it so interesting. Oh, I'm talking much of my past. Anyway, before I end this comment let me thank you for this very nice content and live discussion. Google Sniper

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